Tyson Fury

From what I've seen of him he could pose some problems for this aging version of Wlad Klitschko, though I wouldn't care to wager that Fury will beat him. The guy does have some decent skills such as good hand & foot speed for a 6'9" 250 pounder, plus he has an effective ambidextrous style that has served him well in some past fights. At any rate, this is shaping up to being a somewhat interesting HW title match - at least on paper anyway.

Juan Anonly

2015-07-10 17:29:46 UTC

Post by b***@gmail.com
From what I've seen of him he could pose some problems for this aging
version of Wlad Klitschko, though I wouldn't care to wager that Fury
will beat him. The guy does have some decent skills such as good hand &
foot speed for a 6'9" 250 pounder, plus he has an effective
ambidextrous style that has served him well in some past fights. At any
rate, this is shaping up to being a somewhat interesting HW title match
- at least on paper anyway.

"At least on paper"--you got that right. Klitschko's entire career is
"somewhat interesting" on paper.

--
-- Beware the delicate, tiny, very talented celebrity starlets.

5***@gmail.com

2015-07-10 18:42:34 UTC

Post by Juan Anonly
"At least on paper"--you got that right. Klitschko's entire career is
"somewhat interesting" on paper.
--
-- Beware the delicate, tiny, very talented celebrity starlets.

Juan, Somewhat interesting?

DCI

Juan Anonly

2015-07-11 17:50:28 UTC

Post by Juan Anonly
"At least on paper"--you got that right. Klitschko's entire career is
"somewhat interesting" on paper.
--
-- Beware the delicate, tiny, very talented celebrity starlets.

Juan, Somewhat interesting?

Yes--*on paper*.

--
-- Beware the delicate, tiny, very talented celebrity starlets.

5***@gmail.com

2015-07-11 20:36:21 UTC

Post by Juan Anonly
"At least on paper"--you got that right. Klitschko's entire career is
"somewhat interesting" on paper.
--
-- Beware the delicate, tiny, very talented celebrity starlets.

Juan, Somewhat interesting?

Yes--*on paper*.
--
-- Beware the delicate, tiny, very talented celebrity starlets.

Juan,

You can not imagine the number of athletic events events I've won . . . one paper. :)

DCI

Juan Anonly

2015-07-11 21:52:42 UTC

Post by Juan Anonly
"At least on paper"--you got that right. Klitschko's entire career is
"somewhat interesting" on paper.

Juan, Somewhat interesting?

Yes--*on paper*.

Juan,
You can not imagine the number of athletic events events I've won . . . one paper. :)

Well, I'll have to see your papers before I can give you credit for that.

--
-- Beware the delicate, tiny, very talented celebrity starlets.

5***@gmail.com

2015-07-12 18:23:18 UTC

Post by Juan Anonly
"At least on paper"--you got that right. Klitschko's entire career is
"somewhat interesting" on paper.

Juan, Somewhat interesting?

Yes--*on paper*.

Juan,
You can not imagine the number of athletic events events I've won . . . one paper. :)

Well, I'll have to see your papers before I can give you credit for that.
--
-- Beware the delicate, tiny, very talented celebrity starlets.

Juan, my dog ate them. :)

DCI

Juan Anonly

2015-07-12 19:01:33 UTC

Post by Juan Anonly
"At least on paper"--you got that right. Klitschko's entire career is
"somewhat interesting" on paper.

Juan, Somewhat interesting?

Yes--*on paper*.

Juan,
You can not imagine the number of athletic events events I've won . . . one paper. :)

Well, I'll have to see your papers before I can give you credit for that.

Juan, my dog ate them. :)

Another potentially great career destroyed by our canine underlings...

--
-- Beware the delicate, tiny, very talented celebrity starlets.

h***@gmail.com

2015-07-13 15:30:38 UTC

Post by b***@gmail.com
From what I've seen of him he could pose some problems for this aging version of Wlad Klitschko, though I wouldn't care to wager that Fury will beat him. The guy does have some decent skills such as good hand & foot speed for a 6'9" 250 pounder, plus he has an effective ambidextrous style that has served him well in some past fights. At any rate, this is shaping up to being a somewhat interesting HW title match - at least on paper anyway.

Fury is hopeless when he switches southpaw. He shouldn't do this against WK. When he fights lefty he puts me in mind of the old Dr Johnson quote - "It is not done well, but one is surprised to find it done at all."

He's got a decent chance against a 39-year-old Wlad. He has good speed for his size, he is very strong (though with only adequate power), and he has stamina when he trains right, which he will do against Wlad. I wouldn't be shocked if he pulls off the upset.

He wouldn't have had a chance against a 35-year-old Wlad .

Emanuel Berg

2015-07-14 00:10:54 UTC

Post by h***@gmail.com
Fury is hopeless when he switches southpaw.
He shouldn't do this against WK. When he fights
lefty he puts me in mind of the old Dr Johnson quote
- "It is not done well, but one is surprised to find
it done at all."

He switched to southpaw against Martin Rogan with
great success. Rogan tho was underskilled and
undersized and probably an "old" 35-something while
Tyson was the big, strong and young guy that was
supposed to win. That helps!

I don't know how good Fury can fight out of the flip
stance, and I haven't checked the stats if Wlad has
showed any problems against lefties in the past.
He has certainly put enough "conventional" fighter to
sleep, in more than one sense! If Fury feels he can
deliver the top of his game from that stance, why not?
He can always try it as a Plan B if he eats to many
crosses in the first two or three rounds.

But to be honest, I don't think Wlad has a problem
with lefties, and I don't think Fury can beat him
using either stance or anything else he might come
up with.

Wlad is more skilled than Fury: he has much more
experience, and more power. I don't think his stamina
is an issue just because he is 39 in this day and age,
but who knows. The only thing Fury might beat Wlad at
is the chin, but for him to capitalize on that, he
needs to be able to land, and I don't mean lazy jabs
to the forehead, here. Wlad's chin isn't *that* bad :)

Post by h***@gmail.com
He's got a decent chance against a 39-year-old Wlad.
He has good speed for his size, he is very strong
(though with only adequate power), and he has
stamina when he trains right, which he will do
against Wlad. I wouldn't be shocked if he pulls off
the upset.

If he does, I'll hold that as a sensation but
everyone's got a chance, sure.

Post by h***@gmail.com
He wouldn't have had a chance against a 35-year-old
Wlad .

Well, let's stick to reality :)

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Juan Anonly

2015-07-14 01:30:16 UTC

Post by Emanuel Berg
But to be honest, I don't think Wlad has a problem
with lefties, and I don't think Fury can beat him
using either stance or anything else he might come
up with.

Left-handed or right-handed--he has a system for locking anyone in a
clinch, laying on top of them till he's pulled off.

--
-- Beware the delicate, tiny, very talented celebrity starlets.

Emanuel Berg

2015-07-14 01:56:41 UTC

Post by Juan Anonly
Left-handed or right-handed--he has a system for
locking anyone in a clinch, laying on top of them
till he's pulled off.

That has happened and certainly it did against
Povetkin but Wlad has 67 fights, so "system" I don't
know if it can be fairly designated as...

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

h***@gmail.com

2015-07-14 11:32:04 UTC

Post by Emanuel Berg
But to be honest, I don't think Wlad has a problem
with lefties, and I don't think Fury can beat him
using either stance or anything else he might come
up with.

Left-handed or right-handed--he has a system for locking anyone in a
clinch, laying on top of them till he's pulled off.
--
-- Beware the delicate, tiny, very talented celebrity starlets.

He won't be able to lay on top of Fury, who is heavier and taller. If he tries this he will only wear himself out.

Juan Anonly

2015-07-14 21:56:17 UTC

Post by h***@gmail.com

Post by Emanuel Berg
But to be honest, I don't think Wlad has a problem
with lefties, and I don't think Fury can beat him
using either stance or anything else he might come
up with.

Left-handed or right-handed--he has a system for locking anyone in a
clinch, laying on top of them till he's pulled off.

He won't be able to lay on top of Fury, who is heavier and taller. If
he tries this he will only wear himself out.

We'll see...

--
-- Beware the delicate, tiny, very talented celebrity starlets.

Edmund

2015-07-19 08:48:07 UTC

Post by h***@gmail.com
Fury is hopeless when he switches southpaw.
He shouldn't do this against WK. When he fights lefty he puts me in
mind of the old Dr Johnson quote - "It is not done well, but one is
surprised to find it done at all."

He switched to southpaw against Martin Rogan with great success. Rogan
tho was underskilled and undersized and probably an "old" 35-something
while Tyson was the big, strong and young guy that was supposed to win.
That helps!
I don't know how good Fury can fight out of the flip stance, and I
haven't checked the stats if Wlad has showed any problems against
lefties in the past.
He has certainly put enough "conventional" fighter to sleep, in more
than one sense! If Fury feels he can deliver the top of his game from
that stance, why not?
He can always try it as a Plan B if he eats to many crosses in the first
two or three rounds.
But to be honest, I don't think Wlad has a problem with lefties, and I
don't think Fury can beat him using either stance or anything else he
might come up with.
Wlad is more skilled than Fury: he has much more experience, and more
power. I don't think his stamina is an issue just because he is 39 in
this day and age,
but who knows. The only thing Fury might beat Wlad at is the chin, but
for him to capitalize on that, he needs to be able to land, and I don't
mean lazy jabs to the forehead, here. Wlad's chin isn't *that* bad :)

I don't know but as far I have seen the clinchclowns fights the last
decade, none of there opponents EVER seem to have seen -let alone
studied!- a clinchclown wrestle match.
Never I have seen a single opponent prepared for the most obvious and
predictable illegal clinchclown wrestling tactics, NEVER!

Post by h***@gmail.com
He's got a decent chance against a 39-year-old Wlad.
He has good speed for his size, he is very strong (though with only
adequate power), and he has stamina when he trains right, which he will
do against Wlad. I wouldn't be shocked if he pulls off the upset.

If he does, I'll hold that as a sensation but everyone's got a chance,
sure.

Post by h***@gmail.com
He wouldn't have had a chance against a 35-year-old Wlad .

Well, let's stick to reality :)

Yes we will see, at least Clinchclown have to jump a lot higher then he
is used to, given he mostly wrestled guys some 50 cm's shorter then him.

Edmund

Emanuel Berg

2015-07-19 22:41:21 UTC

Post by Edmund
Yes we will see, at least Clinchclown have to jump
a lot higher then he is used to, given he mostly
wrestled guys some 50 cm's shorter then him.

The clinch discussion aside you might want to remember
that this is the *heavyweight* division where part of
the game, a "big" part thereof, is to be precisely
big, strong, tall and rangy, but still maintain the
athlete's trademarks as in speed, coordination,
balance, etc., many if not all of which get more
difficult the bigger you are. And this is what Wlad
has done better than anyone.

As for clinching it is up to the referee to deduct
points from Wlad, and it is also up to Wlad's opponent
to show that he *wants* to fight on the inside!

Don't hate the player - hate the game!

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Edmund

2015-07-19 23:15:24 UTC

Post by Edmund
Yes we will see, at least Clinchclown have to jump a lot higher then he
is used to, given he mostly wrestled guys some 50 cm's shorter then him.

No he is a cheater, his trademark is cheating.
Last wrestling match I zapped to another channel after or during round
one.
Not kidding.

As for clinching it is up to the referee to deduct points from Wlad,

Well they don't, they never do, and to add an insult to injury, they even
take more then once point from there opponents!
Even the German TV commentators starting to make critical commends about
there boring cheating wrestle styles.
They only fight in Germany and they bring there own corrupt referees.
If I was a referee I would have taken away 3 points per round not only
that, I would demand a dope test too.

and
it is also up to Wlad's opponent to show that he *wants* to fight on the
inside!

I don't agree, they signed for BOXING not for wrestling.

Don't hate the player - hate the game!

I like boxing and I don't like wrestling.

Edmund

Emanuel Berg

2015-07-19 23:28:26 UTC

Post by Edmund
I don't agree, they signed for BOXING not
for wrestling.

They should show frustration and show that they want
to fight. If they do, the referee is ten times the
more likely to deduct points.

Problem is, most Wlad opponents are themselves big
guys that are used to fight on the outside against
smaller opponents. They try to outbox Wlad on the
outside but that won't happen, so they close in.
But here, they don't know what to do. When Wlad grabs
them, they just stand there.

This sends the signal to the referee that both guys
are happy to have a hug party on the inside, and if
so, why not just separate them and have them flash
a couple of jabs on the outside before being all
tangled up again?

The smaller guy that is obstructed on the inside
should always show that he indeed wants to fight, if
that is so. Because it isn't always. Just because Wlad
holds a guy on the inside doesn't mean that guy
actually wants to fight on the inside. Many times, he
doesn't even know how, as he never had to before!

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Edmund

2015-07-20 08:41:28 UTC

Post by Edmund
I don't agree, they signed for BOXING not for wrestling.

They should show frustration and show that they want to fight. If they
do, the referee is ten times the more likely to deduct points.
Problem is, most Wlad opponents are themselves big guys that are used to
fight on the outside against smaller opponents. They try to outbox Wlad
on the outside but that won't happen, so they close in.
But here, they don't know what to do. When Wlad grabs them, they just
stand there.
This sends the signal to the referee that both guys are happy to have a
hug party on the inside, and if so, why not just separate them and have
them flash a couple of jabs on the outside before being all tangled up
again?
The smaller guy that is obstructed on the inside should always show that
he indeed wants to fight, if that is so. Because it isn't always. Just
because Wlad holds a guy on the inside doesn't mean that guy actually
wants to fight on the inside. Many times, he doesn't even know how, as
he never had to before!

Can't believe you even try to defend the clinchclowns, they are a shame
to boxing and even more so for those corrupt home referees.
Clinchclowns don't just "hold" there opponents, they JUMPING on the necks
of there opponents and they aren't even ashamed to do that over and over
again. I don't understand there opponents (and trainers!!) either, I
would instruct my boxer to full attack the growing every time a
clinchclown is trying to force my boxer to oral sex and/or throw him over
the ropes.
I am pretty sure neither clinchclown would be very keen to continue
jumping on my boxers neck after 8 blows in the growing.
After then they can start BOXING!
Clinchclowns aren't boxing, they are wrestling and cheating and it is
boring. With a real referee - one that isn't hired from the WWF jokers
that is- either clinchclown would have be disqualified in about every of
there wrestling match from the last decade.

There are a few fights against larger opponents where they didn't jump on
there opponents neck and since Fury is a big man, maybe there will be
some boxing this time.
Doping control? Well I have seen how that goes these days, never mind. :-)

Edmund

Juan Anonly

2015-07-20 19:32:04 UTC

Worse that that, their opponent gets his head pulled down while trying
to deliver a body punch, resulting in a low blow for which he is then
sometimes *penalized*!

Post by Edmund
I don't understand there opponents (and trainers!!) either, I
would instruct my boxer to full attack the growing every time a
clinchclown is trying to force my boxer to oral sex and/or throw him over
the ropes.

I know there is a macho rationale against this, but I wonder
specifically why they don't simple collapse under the weight a few
times. Clearly the cheater his pushing them down on to the canvas. If
the referee has to keep coming in to declare a "slip", technically a
"push", then you'd think you'd get some more significant referee
involvement.

Post by Edmund
I am pretty sure neither clinchclown would be very keen to continue
jumping on my boxers neck after 8 blows in the growing.

Oh--"groin". I wondered what the hell you were talking about. But an
obvious low blow is going to get point deductions!

Post by Edmund
After then they can start BOXING!
Clinchclowns aren't boxing, they are wrestling and cheating and it is
boring. With a real referee - one that isn't hired from the WWF jokers
that is- either clinchclown would have be disqualified in about every of
there wrestling match from the last decade.
There are a few fights against larger opponents where they didn't jump on
there opponents neck and since Fury is a big man, maybe there will be
some boxing this time.
Doping control? Well I have seen how that goes these days, never mind. :-)
Edmund

Edmund

2015-07-20 21:23:13 UTC

Worse that that, their opponent gets his head pulled down while trying
to deliver a body punch, resulting in a low blow for which he is then
sometimes *penalized*!

I already mentioned these things but appreciated you confirming it.
Unfortunately I haven't seen -or can't remember- clear low blows in such
situations, I always say hit him in the balls.

Post by Edmund
I don't understand there opponents (and trainers!!) either, I would
instruct my boxer to full attack the growing every time a clinchclown
is trying to force my boxer to oral sex and/or throw him over the
ropes.

The referees the clichbrothers bring are corrupt as hell, everybody can
see very clearly they really JUMP on there opponents neck every time.
If you happen to miss that 5 times in one round there are at least 5
times more each round to see.

Post by Edmund
I am pretty sure neither clinchclown would be very keen to continue
jumping on my boxers neck after 8 blows in the growing.

Oh--"groin". I wondered what the hell you were talking about.

Sorry!

Post by Juan Anonly
But an obvious low blow is going to get point deductions!

I don't care, it is probably the only way to stop those clowns from
wrestling, the referees they bring for sure aren't going to stop it.
If my fighter would be disqualified, fine I can live with that, it will
start some discussion about what happened and the refs can explain why
they let the clowns wrestle and penalize there opponents every time.

Edmund

Emanuel Berg

2015-07-20 23:18:10 UTC

Post by Edmund
Can't believe you even try to defend the
clinchclowns, they are a shame to boxing and even
more so for those corrupt home referees.
Clinchclowns don't just "hold" there opponents, they
JUMPING on the necks of there opponents and they
aren't even ashamed to do that over and over again.
I don't understand there opponents (and trainers!!)
either, I would instruct my boxer to full attack the
growing every time a clinchclown is trying to force
my boxer to oral sex and/or throw him over the
ropes. I am pretty sure neither clinchclown would be
very keen to continue jumping on my boxers neck
after 8 blows in the growing. After then they can
start BOXING! Clinchclowns aren't boxing, they are
wrestling and cheating and it is boring. With a real
referee - one that isn't hired from the WWF jokers
that is- either clinchclown would have be
disqualified in about every of there wrestling match
from the last decade.

When you feel frustration in your every-day life -
show it! That method works better than being angry at
Wlad and Vitali in a Usenet newsgroup.

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Juan Anonly

2015-07-21 04:25:58 UTC

Post by Emanuel Berg
When you feel frustration in your every-day life -
show it! That method works better than being angry at
Wlad and Vitali in a Usenet newsgroup.

Again, I becomes suspicious of the integrity of a viewpoint when the
topic is abandoned for a discussion of the participants. It's
certainly much easier.

Juan Anonly

2015-07-20 19:26:50 UTC

Post by Emanuel Berg

Post by Edmund
I don't agree, they signed for BOXING not
for wrestling.

They should show frustration and show that they want
to fight. If they do, the referee is ten times the
more likely to deduct points.

It's sad to think that "working the referee" is now consider such a
significant part of the game. Recently watching Chavez Jr. demand a
point from Reyes after butting himself on his head--and getting it:
What is that supposed to teach younger boxers about how to "win the
fight"?

Adrien Broner is another soulless cheater who inevitably has his
forearm or laces in his opponent's face during most any bout, and to no
apparent note by referees. Is it then the responsibility of his
opponent to carp and whine, and talk to the referree demanding he
"correct" the issue? Because it makes him look like a loser and a
crybaby to the audience, and likely to the judges as well.

It's tough to know where to spend your political and diplomatic capital
between the audience, referee and judges, when you've trained for weeks
or months, in theory, to box an opponent.

Juan Anonly

2015-07-20 19:19:09 UTC

Post by Emanuel Berg

Post by Edmund
Yes we will see, at least Clinchclown have to jump
a lot higher then he is used to, given he mostly
wrestled guys some 50 cm's shorter then him.

A great artist's abilities are inevitably highlighted or diminished by
his opposition. What a heavyweight champiaon might have done "better
than anybody else" over the last 12 years or so has been limited by the
dearth of truly signifiant talent.

Post by Emanuel Berg
As for clinching it is up to the referee to deduct
points from Wlad, and it is also up to Wlad's opponent
to show that he *wants* to fight on the inside!
Don't hate the player - hate the game!

I hear what you're saying but have a problem with it: I don't blame the
referees alone for letting cheaters cheat, I blame cheaters for getting
away with cheating. "Getting away with cheating" isn't suppose to be
either championed, or as you do incidentally, disregarded as "the game".

Emanuel Berg

2015-07-20 23:30:12 UTC

Post by Juan Anonly
A great artist's abilities are inevitably
highlighted or diminished by his opposition.
What a heavyweight champiaon might have done "better
than anybody else" over the last 12 years or so has
been limited by the dearth of truly
signifiant talent.

You don't have to be a fighter yourself to be a boxing
fan. But it helps to have had the gloves on say every
week or so for but a few years, to realize boxing is
a very difficult sport. Against an opponent that has
just reasonable skills and experience, and his hands
high, it is very difficult to land a simple cross to
the chin. And while sparring doesn't exactly "hurt"
while at it, it is common with blue eyes and a mild
headache several days after - if not from the blows
themselves, from the tension.

I'm saying this because it is unbelievable to me how
you guys can be so disrespectful to a heavyweight
world champion with 67 fights and an olympic
gold medal.

Get real!

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Juan Anonly

2015-07-21 04:24:17 UTC

Post by Emanuel Berg

You don't have to be a fighter yourself to be a boxing
fan. But it helps to have had the gloves on say every
week or so for but a few years, to realize boxing is
a very difficult sport. Against an opponent that has
just reasonable skills and experience, and his hands
high, it is very difficult to land a simple cross to
the chin. And while sparring doesn't exactly "hurt"
while at it, it is common with blue eyes and a mild
headache several days after - if not from the blows
themselves, from the tension.
I'm saying this because it is unbelievable to me how
you guys can be so disrespectful to a heavyweight
world champion with 67 fights and an olympic
gold medal.
Get real!

We are real. The realest. Do you make movies. How could you have an
opinion them. Do you write books--you can't believe how hard it is so
your critique is valueless. Do you write, orchestrate, play and
produce your own recordings--eh, you couldn't know anything about music.

I frequently here people go through this, "unless you can do better"
routine about all manner of things, but the shorter way to say it is
this: My opinion has more validity than yours.

I've boxed 40 or 50 rounds in life, and long ago. It didn't really add
anything to my esthetic consideration of the game: A boxer's
perspective is very different than the "consumer's" view of the same.
The "consumer's" perspective is the *right one*. We are paying for it,
we are watching it.

Get real, your opinion is no better or worse than anybody else's, but I
always find an opinion suspect when the discussion turns away from the
topic and towards the participants.

Edmund

2015-07-21 10:53:14 UTC

Post by Juan Anonly
A great artist's abilities are inevitably highlighted or diminished by
his opposition.
What a heavyweight champiaon might have done "better than anybody else"
over the last 12 years or so has been limited by the dearth of truly
signifiant talent.

You don't have to be a fighter yourself to be a boxing fan. But it helps
to have had the gloves on say every week or so for but a few years, to
realize boxing is a very difficult sport. Against an opponent that has
just reasonable skills and experience, and his hands high, it is very
difficult to land a simple cross to the chin. And while sparring doesn't
exactly "hurt" while at it, it is common with blue eyes and a mild
headache several days after - if not from the blows themselves, from the
tension.
I'm saying this because it is unbelievable to me how you guys can be so
disrespectful to a heavyweight world champion with 67 fights and an
olympic gold medal.
Get real!

I have to give it to you that the brothers deserve some respect based on
there paper accomplishments but I don't "feel" respect for them at all.
Imo they didn't do much for boxing they have turned it into a WWF fake
show.
Don't think I am alone here, I have seen one or two rounds -before I
dozed off or zapped away- of several fights of them and more then once
noone here even mentioned anything about it.
Nobody seemed to know or was interested and I think I know why.
I have some respect for them mostly because they turned down Don King and
they always appear in physical top shape each and every time.
At them same time I can't help myself seeing a remarkable similarity
between them and Evander HGH Holyfield.

About my respect in general, I respect every guy and today I must add
"girl" who dare to step into a ring and fight mano a mano.
It doesn't matter much to me how successful one is but it does matter to
me how honest and sportsmanlike one is.
The brothers who are physical very strong and well conditioned but still
systematically cheat and use illegal tactics in each and every fight,
they fail and don't have my respect.

Edmund

Emanuel Berg

2015-07-12 02:10:57 UTC