Discussion:
Stiverne-Wilder Report (Spoilers of Course)
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That SOB Van Owen
2015-01-18 16:41:57 UTC
Permalink
Deontay Wilder whooped Bermane Stiverne pretty good last night on
Showtime to capture his WBC heavyweight championship. The number one
thing I'll do is give Wilder the credit he demanded if he won:
acknowledge that he's legitimate, that he can box, that he can go
strongly into the late rounds including the championship rounds of 11
and 12, and that he doesn't fold at the first hard shots he has to
endure. All that is true and totally refutes the harsh fan and media
criticism that he had to tolerate until now because of his long record
of KOs over mediocre fighters, tomato cans and nobodies. Let that
stuff be buried and give this champion his due.

Wilder beat Stiverne convincingly and steadily over 12 rounds to get a
unanimous decision. One judge had him winning every round, the other
two gave Stiverne merely a round or two. I would not say he
"dominated" Stiverne because Stiverne was able to land hard punches
here and there. One of the commentators said early on that it could be
difficult to score some of the early rounds because Wilder was popping
with the jab regularly, but Stiverne at the same time was landing more
powerful shots but only here and there. As the fight wore on though,
that didn't matter because Stiverne faded and appeared to tire
greatly. whereas Wilder kept on full-steam still seeming fresh.

Wilder displayed I thought improvement and good judgement. He was
firing his right hand straight ahead, and never wildly in a wide outer
arc like he was prone to in some of his earlier fights. When Stiverne,
renowned for counter-punching, appeared to try to draw Wilder in a
couple times by backing up against the ropes, Wilder wisely smelled a
trap and would back off a bit. Wilder also made great use of his long
skinny legs by circling the outside of the ring rapidly as Stiverne
followed him in the interior with tiny steps. Wilder did most of his
damage to Stiverne while walking backwards.

As to Stiverne: what happened? The first couple rounds were
interesting as he just approached Wilder straight on and slowly, not
doing much. I thought he was trying a psychological game, figuring
Wilder was not truly experienced and might panic because he wasn't
sure what to do. But Wilder stayed calm and got the best of those
rounds too, finding that he could land the long jab and also slip a
right up the middle. Wilder wasn't putting all his power on all those
punches either, he was half-committing to them because he wanted to
preserve his ability to rear back if he sensed a solid counter coming.

But enough of those punches by Wilder were hard enough to take
something out of Stiverne. Stiverne said after the fight that he felt
"flat" during the fight, that something was wrong, that he just
couldn't do the things like head movement and multi-punch exchanges
that historically he's been able to. Was it overtraining, a virus, I
wondered?

I even pondered the possibility that Stiverne had been drugged. Just
before the match, he was interviewed in his locker room, and the
Showtime guy nearly scowled at him because he had apparently been
dancing in there. "Why are you so loose?" Stiverne seemed a bit giddy.
The other reason to entertain this drugging possibility is that Wilder
as champion is seen as an immense boon to USA boxing financially. He
is charismatic and very tall and muscular and even reasonably good
looking. The marketing as "first American champion in years" is
already in full swing. So the immense economies involved conceivably
could furnish a bribe to somebody somewhere to slip a little something
in Stiverne's water bottle, or something like that. However obviously
there's no proof of this.

I even hesitated to raise the possibility because I don't want to
conspiracy monger, however it seemed really strange to me how poor
Stiverne's energy was and how dull he seemed mentally being unable to
change his gameplan when it was clear he was losing. The other answer
of course is that it was Wilder's punches that sapped his energy and
took away his sharpness and ability to go to Plan B. Let's go with
that one.

None of this talk should take away from Wilder. He beat the guy that
he had to beat. He beat him soundly. Even if Stiverne was only at 75%
on the night, Wilder likely could have moderately decisioned him if he
had been at 110%. So cheers to Deontay, and may he go on to be a great
champion and bring the American heavyweight industry back to life,
like so many hope he can.

That SOB Van Owen

PS: Next steps? Wilder said at the post-fight conference he'd like to
fight Fury and then Klitschko this year.
SkippyPB
2015-01-18 17:31:22 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 18 Jan 2015 09:41:57 -0700, That SOB Van Owen
Post by That SOB Van Owen
Deontay Wilder whooped Bermane Stiverne pretty good last night on
Showtime to capture his WBC heavyweight championship. The number one
acknowledge that he's legitimate, that he can box, that he can go
strongly into the late rounds including the championship rounds of 11
and 12, and that he doesn't fold at the first hard shots he has to
endure. All that is true and totally refutes the harsh fan and media
criticism that he had to tolerate until now because of his long record
of KOs over mediocre fighters, tomato cans and nobodies. Let that
stuff be buried and give this champion his due.
Wilder beat Stiverne convincingly and steadily over 12 rounds to get a
unanimous decision. One judge had him winning every round, the other
two gave Stiverne merely a round or two. I would not say he
"dominated" Stiverne because Stiverne was able to land hard punches
here and there. One of the commentators said early on that it could be
difficult to score some of the early rounds because Wilder was popping
with the jab regularly, but Stiverne at the same time was landing more
powerful shots but only here and there. As the fight wore on though,
that didn't matter because Stiverne faded and appeared to tire
greatly. whereas Wilder kept on full-steam still seeming fresh.
Wilder displayed I thought improvement and good judgement. He was
firing his right hand straight ahead, and never wildly in a wide outer
arc like he was prone to in some of his earlier fights. When Stiverne,
renowned for counter-punching, appeared to try to draw Wilder in a
couple times by backing up against the ropes, Wilder wisely smelled a
trap and would back off a bit. Wilder also made great use of his long
skinny legs by circling the outside of the ring rapidly as Stiverne
followed him in the interior with tiny steps. Wilder did most of his
damage to Stiverne while walking backwards.
As to Stiverne: what happened? The first couple rounds were
interesting as he just approached Wilder straight on and slowly, not
doing much. I thought he was trying a psychological game, figuring
Wilder was not truly experienced and might panic because he wasn't
sure what to do. But Wilder stayed calm and got the best of those
rounds too, finding that he could land the long jab and also slip a
right up the middle. Wilder wasn't putting all his power on all those
punches either, he was half-committing to them because he wanted to
preserve his ability to rear back if he sensed a solid counter coming.
But enough of those punches by Wilder were hard enough to take
something out of Stiverne. Stiverne said after the fight that he felt
"flat" during the fight, that something was wrong, that he just
couldn't do the things like head movement and multi-punch exchanges
that historically he's been able to. Was it overtraining, a virus, I
wondered?
I even pondered the possibility that Stiverne had been drugged. Just
before the match, he was interviewed in his locker room, and the
Showtime guy nearly scowled at him because he had apparently been
dancing in there. "Why are you so loose?" Stiverne seemed a bit giddy.
The other reason to entertain this drugging possibility is that Wilder
as champion is seen as an immense boon to USA boxing financially. He
is charismatic and very tall and muscular and even reasonably good
looking. The marketing as "first American champion in years" is
already in full swing. So the immense economies involved conceivably
could furnish a bribe to somebody somewhere to slip a little something
in Stiverne's water bottle, or something like that. However obviously
there's no proof of this.
I even hesitated to raise the possibility because I don't want to
conspiracy monger, however it seemed really strange to me how poor
Stiverne's energy was and how dull he seemed mentally being unable to
change his gameplan when it was clear he was losing. The other answer
of course is that it was Wilder's punches that sapped his energy and
took away his sharpness and ability to go to Plan B. Let's go with
that one.
None of this talk should take away from Wilder. He beat the guy that
he had to beat. He beat him soundly. Even if Stiverne was only at 75%
on the night, Wilder likely could have moderately decisioned him if he
had been at 110%. So cheers to Deontay, and may he go on to be a great
champion and bring the American heavyweight industry back to life,
like so many hope he can.
That SOB Van Owen
PS: Next steps? Wilder said at the post-fight conference he'd like to
fight Fury and then Klitschko this year.
Well I guess it is nice an American won 1 of the alphabet soup
organizations' heavyweight belts. Something that hasn't occurred
since 2006. Wilder, lest we forget, was an Olympic Bronze Medallist
in 2008. So he's got some skills. But the question remains, can he
beat Wladimir Klitschko? We'll see.

Regards,
--
"How do you get a sweet little 80-year-old lady to say the F word?
Get another sweet little 80-year-old lady to yell 'BINGO!"
-- Anonymous
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Remove nospam to email me.

Steve
5***@gmail.com
2015-01-18 17:57:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by That SOB Van Owen
Deontay Wilder whooped Bermane Stiverne pretty good last night on
Showtime to capture his WBC heavyweight championship. The number one
acknowledge that he's legitimate, that he can box, that he can go
strongly into the late rounds including the championship rounds of 11
and 12, and that he doesn't fold at the first hard shots he has to
endure. All that is true and totally refutes the harsh fan and media
criticism that he had to tolerate until now because of his long record
of KOs over mediocre fighters, tomato cans and nobodies. Let that
stuff be buried and give this champion his due.
Wilder beat Stiverne convincingly and steadily over 12 rounds to get a
unanimous decision. One judge had him winning every round, the other
two gave Stiverne merely a round or two. I would not say he
"dominated" Stiverne because Stiverne was able to land hard punches
here and there. One of the commentators said early on that it could be
difficult to score some of the early rounds because Wilder was popping
with the jab regularly, but Stiverne at the same time was landing more
powerful shots but only here and there. As the fight wore on though,
that didn't matter because Stiverne faded and appeared to tire
greatly. whereas Wilder kept on full-steam still seeming fresh.
Wilder displayed I thought improvement and good judgement. He was
firing his right hand straight ahead, and never wildly in a wide outer
arc like he was prone to in some of his earlier fights. When Stiverne,
renowned for counter-punching, appeared to try to draw Wilder in a
couple times by backing up against the ropes, Wilder wisely smelled a
trap and would back off a bit. Wilder also made great use of his long
skinny legs by circling the outside of the ring rapidly as Stiverne
followed him in the interior with tiny steps. Wilder did most of his
damage to Stiverne while walking backwards.
As to Stiverne: what happened? The first couple rounds were
interesting as he just approached Wilder straight on and slowly, not
doing much. I thought he was trying a psychological game, figuring
Wilder was not truly experienced and might panic because he wasn't
sure what to do. But Wilder stayed calm and got the best of those
rounds too, finding that he could land the long jab and also slip a
right up the middle. Wilder wasn't putting all his power on all those
punches either, he was half-committing to them because he wanted to
preserve his ability to rear back if he sensed a solid counter coming.
But enough of those punches by Wilder were hard enough to take
something out of Stiverne. Stiverne said after the fight that he felt
"flat" during the fight, that something was wrong, that he just
couldn't do the things like head movement and multi-punch exchanges
that historically he's been able to. Was it overtraining, a virus, I
wondered?
I even pondered the possibility that Stiverne had been drugged. Just
before the match, he was interviewed in his locker room, and the
Showtime guy nearly scowled at him because he had apparently been
dancing in there. "Why are you so loose?" Stiverne seemed a bit giddy.
The other reason to entertain this drugging possibility is that Wilder
as champion is seen as an immense boon to USA boxing financially. He
is charismatic and very tall and muscular and even reasonably good
looking. The marketing as "first American champion in years" is
already in full swing. So the immense economies involved conceivably
could furnish a bribe to somebody somewhere to slip a little something
in Stiverne's water bottle, or something like that. However obviously
there's no proof of this.
I even hesitated to raise the possibility because I don't want to
conspiracy monger, however it seemed really strange to me how poor
Stiverne's energy was and how dull he seemed mentally being unable to
change his gameplan when it was clear he was losing. The other answer
of course is that it was Wilder's punches that sapped his energy and
took away his sharpness and ability to go to Plan B. Let's go with
that one.
None of this talk should take away from Wilder. He beat the guy that
he had to beat. He beat him soundly. Even if Stiverne was only at 75%
on the night, Wilder likely could have moderately decisioned him if he
had been at 110%. So cheers to Deontay, and may he go on to be a great
champion and bring the American heavyweight industry back to life,
like so many hope he can.
That SOB Van Owen
PS: Next steps? Wilder said at the post-fight conference he'd like to
fight Fury and then Klitschko this year.
Van Owen, your comments are straight on!

DCI
Juan Anonly
2015-01-18 19:13:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by That SOB Van Owen
As to Stiverne: what happened? The first couple rounds were
interesting as he just approached Wilder straight on and slowly, not
doing much. I thought he was trying a psychological game, figuring
Wilder was not truly experienced and might panic because he wasn't
sure what to do. But Wilder stayed calm and got the best of those
rounds too, finding that he could land the long jab and also slip a
right up the middle. Wilder wasn't putting all his power on all those
punches either, he was half-committing to them because he wanted to
preserve his ability to rear back if he sensed a solid counter coming.
What happened indeed. I think the pschological game *ended* in the
fight and started weeks before. Stiverne seened more worried about
"looking good" and making Wilder "look bad" and avoiding himself
"looking bad" et al. All that talk in the ring tells me he was there
on an emotional not a physical quest. Why he stood outside and fought
Wilder's fight, I can't imagine. He was walking him down, without
cutting of the ring and in effect wound up chasing him most of the
night. When he caught him he fired wild ineffective punches if he threw
anything at all.

At various times it looked like a replay of Frazier/Ali, with Wilder
easily jabbing at a distance and using his legs, and Stiverne waddling
with his gaurd high, just like Frazier. Unlike Frazier he rarely
attacked. A short guy with a 6 inch differential in reach has got to
go and stay inside. He rarely tried. I think he was just confounded
and wanted to avoid looking bad.

Early on he was doing some good body work, but as is so often the case
it was discarded or forgotten. Four rounds of merciless body attack,
frequently looking like a ham-handed palooka might have slowed Wilder's
foot work, increased his defense and given Stiverne a point of entry.

Alas.
Post by That SOB Van Owen
None of this talk should take away from Wilder. He beat the guy that
he had to beat. He beat him soundly. Even if Stiverne was only at 75%
on the night, Wilder likely could have moderately decisioned him if he
had been at 110%. So cheers to Deontay, and may he go on to be a great
champion and bring the American heavyweight industry back to life,
like so many hope he can.
I agree: From what I saw Wilder would have won if Stiverne had closed
the gap. But it would certainly given him a potential for a KO. Yes,
we know now the Wilder can take a punch. Even a few, if spaced over 12
rounds. But if he had felt Stiverne's power a few times each round,
who knows if it would have lasted six.

I see no reason for a rematch unless they completely run out of willing
opponents.
Post by That SOB Van Owen
PS: Next steps? Wilder said at the post-fight conference he'd like to
fight Fury and then Klitschko this year.
I think he needs Fury plus a few more significant opponents before his
inevitable loss to Klitschko. That way he'll make more money for the
fight when he gets it.
--
-- Beware the delicate, tiny, very talented celebrity starlets.
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